Talk:Viking Chapter

This last change is untrue. While the use Viking Symbolism is primarily at HBCU, it is not necessarily exclusive to them. All-male chapters are generally referred to as Viking Chapters. This is whether they want to be called this or not, it is a generalized term.

I know Xi Nu at Texas Wesleyan is not an HBCU, but everyone refers to is as a Viking Chapter. --RogerClark 08:36, 15 Jul 2005 (PDT)

• It is not. The "Viking Chapters" are those which use the Viking Symbology. The only time I have seen Viking used as a symbol at a non-HBCU is at Austin Peay State University, where most of the chapter was African-American. I have talked to brothers at Delta (Auburn), Nu Mu (U of MN - Duluth), and Pi Chi (Duquesne) and none of them use the term Viking.

There is no mention of the word "Viking" in the entire xinuapo.org website. If they don't use it, why should others refer to them that way? Naraht 03:55, 17 Jul 2005 (PDT)

I suspect it is a colloquialism. I meant that they may not use the symbolism, but take the name out of its prevalence and common usage. My wife was active in the Dallas area for a number of years, and even dated a member at one time before we met. It was over 6 years ago, but they referred to themselves as such and so did everyone else in the area. Their Alumni Newsletter refers to themselves as a Viking chapter in the middle of page 1 and in the same context as I use it. Then again, it is moot point of discussion since the chapter apparently went inactive in the last few years, and will have to come back co-ed whether they want to or not. Perhaps it is that most if not all other all male chapters in that area are HBCU so they just rolled with it, and in the midwest and eastern all-male chapters don't have the same context and feel differently. I guess I may very well basing my arguement on one chapter and insulting both sides, since for all I know HBCU chapters may have looked down on them for using the name, but it is my experience.

I have to admit that most of the west coast brothers don't know all-male chapters exist, or about the Gentleman's Agreement until their first National Convention experience with them. And, we won't run into them until the next National Convention. So we have referred to them as such, but it may be a regional thing.--RogerClark 09:21, 18 Jul 2005 (PDT)

Well, some of the chapters at HBCUs use the symbols a lot. See viking image for an example.

I talked to Judy Mitchell and she said that Texas Wesleyan isn't dead yet. They turned in monies in the 2003-2004 school year, so unless the RD has some specific information on the chapter having disappeared completely (which the news article may represent), It won't come up until at least February.

I don't know what terminology beyond refering to themselves as a Viking chapter. Would something like "Mostly used by chapters at HBCUs" including TXWes in that list with a note that it is not at an HBCU?

There are some other all-male chapters in Region VII, but I think most of the other ones at non-HBCUs are in Section 40. I think I'll write to the address given in the alumni newsletters. (Which BTW, says that the alumni chapter (wrong terminology of course) will work to bring back the chapter at TXWes even if it has to be all male.

The rapidity of co-edness on the West Coast has always fascinated me. Were there *any* chapters in California that weren't breaking the rules by pledging Women in 1974? I would imagine that the Section 14 (UT + S. ID) chapters might have played it more conservatively though. I've heard the comment that if they hadn't admitted women and had enforced the bylaws that they would have had to pull every charter on the west coast. 1/2 :) Naraht 08:13, 20 Jul 2005 (PDT)

---

I honestly have no idea, as it was long before my time. Although I have heard it mentioned that Zeta chapter had a female president in 1976, she may have actually gone to Nationals as such. It most likely likely came out of the strong prevalence of progressive thought on the west coast, especially coming out of the 60's. Since I am sure the push for co-ed was going on long before it was actually approved, I wouldn't be surprised if the chapters out here had been co-ed for the better part of a decade by then. I had heard the movement for women in the fraternity popped up pretty soon after the scouting restrictions were removed.

Section 14 (now 13 and 10) has been pretty empty most of its life. Colleges are pretty thin on the ground out there to start with, and APhiO has never had the support/endorsement of the LDS Church, which is practically a requirement to be successful in much of that area. So I doubt there were very many chapters in that area at the time, but given the social climate of the area, they were probably not coed. Total conjecture here, but that may be part of the reason we don't have any out there at present.

As to the whole Viking thing, I was going off my experience, and I guess it isn't the norm. My experience is mostly through my wife and her experiences with Xi Nu. The whole inactive status information was off of their alumni newsletter as well. They use the name, but not the symbolism. Yes, the HBCUs do use the symbolism very heavily, in fact we referred to them as APhiQs to denote the difference from a viking chapter. Apparently, both phrases mean practically the the same thing most everywhere else. The "we" in this case is maybe a dozen people on the west coast that knew enough about it to actually have a discussion on the topic. --RogerClark 09:38, 20 Jul 2005 (PDT)